Tuesday, August 26, 2008

On The Fall

"God does not choose to tell us why He let Satan walk around in the Garden so he could talk to Adam and Eve, and He doesn't tell us why God did not talk to Adam and Eve to kindly counsel them about Satan's deception...And while God told the sad couple in no uncertain terms to not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, He did not seem to tell them that there was such a thing as a  lie, and such a being as a liar."               -Don Miller 

I find this a curious statement.  It kind of changes the way I see the Fall and humanity's frailness and vulnerability to sin.  It also brings into question God's knowledge of the Fall, his allowance of it, and what greater purpose it may have served if He knew about it and let it happen.  Which, of course, also brings into question free will.  

So.  From my understanding, Lucifer is an angel who gets the boot from heaven because he wants to be God.  To be honest, I'm not entirely sure where this idea comes from.  I wiki'd Lucifer and found a bunch of different ideas.  Either way, Lucifer gets sentenced to earth.  I imagine Lucifer/Satan is probably bitter about the whole thing and wanders about his prison looking for something to destroy because he's so mad.  He happens upon Adam and Eve and successfully convinces them that they can be like God-the same thing he got the boot out of heaven for.  

Adam and Eve, meanwhile, have only ever been in relationship with God and whatever other animals they were surrounded by.  They have never been confronted with evil and at first contact, fail miserably.  Can they be at fault for this?  Of course, they had God's "law" set for them-don't eat from this tree-but did God realize at the point of their failure that His law was not enough?  Did God know when he made them that they would be inherently incapable of keeping His one command?  

I guess I had always thought that God hatched the Jesus plan after the Fall-as a result of it. But what if that was the plan all along, before he ever made Adam and Eve, knowing that He would create vulnerable people that would need Him.   Certainly makes current struggles easier to understand.  

I realize I've made several assumptions, here.  I kind of let thoughts roll to see what came out...feel free, as always, to leave comment. 



T. M. Gagnon said...

Anyone who took the Genesis class will tell you I don't think Satan was in the garden at all. So, there's that.

I think the idea of Lucifer actually comes from somewhere in the deuterocanon, which are the books that Protestants say they don't like except for the bits they quite like.

So, let me ask this: Could the first humans, if they were so innocent, understand the concept of a lie such that God would ever be able to warn them that one was coming, or would the warning itself put the idea of lying in their minds?

For that matter, did the law itself, that they should not eat of the tree, in itself imply eating of the tree? In other words, does sin presuppose itself?

This isn't to say that sin, or evil, or lies are God's fault. It is to say that I think you may be right, and the idea of sending Jesus precedes the so-called fall. So, in the same way that the law implies the sin, perhaps the mere act of creating implies the act of redeeming.

Mel said...

I've never pondered the idea that Satan wasn't in the Garden. What led you to that conclusion?
Though, I can see it making sense if their temptation to eat of the tree came simply from being told not to eat of it (sin presupposing itself).

Here's another question: If God created man with the presupposition of redemption, how does this affect free will? We are already predertermined to fail. There really isn't a way for us to always choose right in every circumstance in all of life.

Kristy said...

I thought it was interesting that you mentioned that all they had was God's law. It made me think of the world today and the choices we make. Even though Adam and Eve may have been ignorant of satan and the evilness of temptation you also have to think, they walked with God. We struggle to hold onto his law in our own lives and all we have is words on a page, but man, to walk with him and talk with him and a serpent be able to undermine you, that's amazing. A snake or God... hmmm... what do I do. Anyway, I think God always knows what is to come and will be and also allows things to happen. I think that God can manage to give us freewill and still know what is to come because as we often hear he does not live within our time and space constraints. He is all being and everywhere at all times. I think it's just hard for us sometimes to believe in something bigger than what our minds can conceptualize. I think that's also why I like God so much. He's just amazing in every way.